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Offline Claire_

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WOW! - Well spoken chapel service
« on: January 21, 2020, 03:39:07 PM »
I randomly found this through youtube today and thought I would share here.  This is a Christ-centered approach to understanding and relating to transsexual/transgender individuals.  30 minutes of non-judgemental biblical teaching to a chapel service at a christian college.



Offline Katie

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Re: WOW! - Well spoken chapel service
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2020, 04:03:39 PM »
Hey, Claire, thanks for posting this. Yarhouse is one of the best Christian authors on gender dysphoria. I used to have a copy of his book Understanding Gender Dysphoria. He proposes three ways of interpreting gender dysphoria through scripture:
1. Natural diversity, which is to be embraced and celebrated
2. An unfortunate result of fallen human nature, a developmental abnormality not any different from autism or a cleft palette
3. Outright sin, damnable delusions

Yarhouse is of the second viewpoint, and I would say I am as well.

He is one of the only Christian authors who acknowledge the organic causes for gender dysphoria. However, his approach to treatment is not the best. His approach is basically "do only the very minimum to achieve a level relief that allows you to live safely". Most of us really do need to transition, and his approach only serves to drag that out over as long of a time as possible, extending the pain and suffering.

But, in a world of Christians who outright hate and condemn transgender people, he is one of the most reasonable voices out there.

Another good resource is Mark Wingfield, a Southern Baptist pastor from Texas who put his career and reputation on the line by publicly writing about the nature of gender dysphoria and why being transgender is not a sin. I have had email correspondence with him and he is a very helpful and kind person.
"Some want to live within the sound
Of church or chapel bell;
I want to run a rescue shop,
Within a yard of hell".
C.T. Studd

"Redeeming love has been my theme,
and shall be till I die".
William Cowper

Offline Kirsteneklund7

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Re: WOW! - Well spoken chapel service
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2020, 04:15:45 PM »
I randomly found this through youtube today and thought I would share here.  This is a Christ-centered approach to understanding and relating to transsexual/transgender individuals.  30 minutes of non-judgemental biblical teaching to a chapel service at a christian college.



 Hi Claire,
 I have found Mark Yarhouse of great value as well ! It really does help open discussion with the more fundamentalist types or even seeing ourselves with the respect to the Christian values. I bought his book as well and found it is great for moderating emotive/dogmatic mindset in certain people.




 Thanks for putting the video up here.

  Kirsten :o
As a child prayed to be a girl and now its happening, - 40 years later !

Offline Katie

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Re: WOW! - Well spoken chapel service
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2020, 04:19:17 PM »
I really like his analogy of radio signal static and interference as being like the constant irritation and distraction of gender dysphoria. That is exactly the same way I described it to my wife before I ever saw this video or read his book.

I actually got my wife to read the first few chapters of his book back when I had a copy. I think it helped keep the really bad assumptions from entering her mind.
"Some want to live within the sound
Of church or chapel bell;
I want to run a rescue shop,
Within a yard of hell".
C.T. Studd

"Redeeming love has been my theme,
and shall be till I die".
William Cowper

Offline Linde

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Re: WOW! - Well spoken chapel service
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2020, 06:06:48 PM »

But, in a world of Christians who outright hate and condemn transgender people,
That is wrong expression, cause those people are not Christians, but self declared and fake Christians.  They follow the Christian teachings only in subjects and areas that they think is right for them!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 09:57:32 AM by Linde »
If life deals you lemons, make the best out of them, make lemonade, or put them into your bra to make it look like you have big boobs!

Offline Claire_

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Re: WOW! - Well spoken chapel service
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2020, 09:56:09 AM »
Thanks all for the responses.  I agree his approach on treatment is definitely not ideal.  I just like that he sees and treats the individuals as humans first and foremost.  That stands in contrast to what most of have experienced in the church or with its members.


Offline Katie

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Re: WOW! - Well spoken chapel service
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2020, 04:21:45 PM »
Just a quick note for anyone who wants to share Yarhouse's materials with others, be aware that he endorses a "redemptive suffering" viewpoint where he thinks Christians who suffer from gender dysphoria should seek out "sanctification through suffering" and do as little as possible to keep gender dysphoria from killing them. He endorses suffering as better than being healthy and whole. I would definitely watch or read any of his content very carefully before sharing with others. I find portions of his work to be helpful, but his attitude toward suffering is not something I would ever endorse. Redemption through suffering is a very "works" oriented theology that is not biblical at all and leads to all kinds of nutty things like people flagellating themselves with whips and crawling on their knees until their bloody trying to obtain God's favor.
"Some want to live within the sound
Of church or chapel bell;
I want to run a rescue shop,
Within a yard of hell".
C.T. Studd

"Redeeming love has been my theme,
and shall be till I die".
William Cowper

Offline Linde

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Re: WOW! - Well spoken chapel service
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2020, 04:50:13 PM »
Just a quick note for anyone who wants to share Yarhouse's materials with others, be aware that he endorses a "redemptive suffering" viewpoint where he thinks Christians who suffer from gender dysphoria should seek out "sanctification through suffering" and do as little as possible to keep gender dysphoria from killing them. He endorses suffering as better than being healthy and whole. I would definitely watch or read any of his content very carefully before sharing with others. I find portions of his work to be helpful, but his attitude toward suffering is not something I would ever endorse. Redemption through suffering is a very "works" oriented theology that is not biblical at all and leads to all kinds of nutty things like people flagellating themselves with whips and crawling on their knees until their bloody trying to obtain God's favor.
Anybody who thinks like this, is simply a idiot in my eyes.  It's is the theological thinking from about 500 years ago!  I would not want to use any of his thoughts applied to my life, and to find any of this helpful, you have to bend over and sideways and over your head fifty times.  When you hurt yourself , are you happy because the pain goes away lowly?  And to be that happy, you hurt yourself again?

This guy needs a therapist worse than anybody of the transgender people I have come in contact with.  That guy is simply sick in his head!

Hugs
Linde
If life deals you lemons, make the best out of them, make lemonade, or put them into your bra to make it look like you have big boobs!

Online Thessa

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Re: WOW! - Well spoken chapel service
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2020, 06:06:34 AM »
Anybody who thinks like this, is simply a idiot in my eyes.  It's is the theological thinking from about 500 years ago!  I would not want to use any of his thoughts applied to my life, and to find any of this helpful, you have to bend over and sideways and over your head fifty times.  When you hurt yourself , are you happy because the pain goes away lowly?  And to be that happy, you hurt yourself again?

This guy needs a therapist worse than anybody of the transgender people I have come in contact with.  That guy is simply sick in his head!

Hugs
Linde

Linde, perfectly put!



Offline Claire_

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Re: Chapel service of Yarhouse
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2020, 01:32:54 PM »
Thanks Katie for summarizing that point so well.  I agree that suffering is not more righteous than finding relief medically.  It may very well be seen as the more religious path by many believers, but it is definitely not right biblically or morally.  It seems Yarhouse equates the dysphoria and medical treatment of it with sin and conflates the issue to deny that sin redemption through Christ Jesus as a basis for his conclusion of suffering. 


If Jesus can save and redeem a murder (including one who killed many), a tax collector, and the lot; why would he then hold gender transition in any higher regard?  This is in my mind the false doctrine that some sin is irredeemable or their is some hierarchy of level of sin.  That cannot be true if he will never leave you or forsake you.